Interview with Lyndal Curtis
ABC Radio AM Program
13 February 2009
SUBJECTS: Nation Building and Jobs Plan, Rio Tinto/Chinalco
CURTIS:
Wayne Swan, welcome to AM.
TREASURER:
Good morning, Lyndal.
CURTIS:
You've already met with Senator Xenophon this morning. Have you struck a deal yet?
TREASURER:
I'm continuing to talk to the minor parties, including Senator Xenophon, so I'm not going to publicly disclose the nature of those discussions. The Government is very keen to see this legislation pass and that's not essentially about Senator Xenophon. It goes to the heart of the economic irresponsibility of Malcolm Turnbull and the Liberal and National parties. We wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't for the fact that Malcolm Turnbull and the Liberal and National parties have decided to be economic wreckers.
CURTIS:
Are you close to a deal? Are you willing to agree to at least some of Senator Xenophon's requests?
TREASURER:
Well, we already have agreed to a substantial number of requests from a number of the minor parties, including Senator Xenophon. Senator Xenophon indicated that he was looking for more for the Murray-Darling. We will do what we can responsibly do. It is really important that this fiscal stimulus package passes the Parliament. But we can't agree to matters if they're not economically responsible, if they're not practical, and if they're not in the international interest.
CURTIS:
You gave the Greens $40 million yesterday for bike paths, amongst other things. Why is it so hard to, out of $42 billion, find some money for an area as important as the Murray-Darling?
TREASURER:
We are already putting an enormous amount of money into the Murray-Darling and it is a very high priority for the Government. We had agreed with Senator Xenophon prior to yesterday to bring forward $400 million worth of water buy backs. We had already agreed to that. We are in the business of being as constructive and as practical as we possibly can. But we can't agree to things which don't work or are not responsible.
CURTIS:
Are you prepared, though, to spend a few hundred million dollars more if that's what it takes to get through a package you say is so urgently needed?
TREASURER:
Well, we're prepared to act in the national interest. That's what governs the fiscal stimulus package in the first place. We are in the middle of a global recession. It demands a very substantial fiscal stimulus through this Nation Building and Jobs package that we are putting to the Parliament. We are just mystified, if you like, by the approach of the Liberal and National parties. You've got the Business Council of Australia, you've got the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, you've got the Australian Industry Group, you've got working families, you've got the ACTU, you've got most market economists; the only people in the country who can't see the need for this package and the urgency are the Liberal and National parties and Malcolm Turnbull.
CURTIS:
But there are seven other votes out there. You don't need the Liberal and National parties to vote for it in the Senate. Should you have begun negotiations earlier with the crossbenchers in order to prevent the outcome we saw yesterday?
TREASURER:
We have been discussing these matters with the crossbenchers; with the Greens and with the other independents and minor parties in the Senate. But we can't predict their behaviour. We come to the table in good faith, and we continue to do that.
CURTIS:
But you were left yesterday doing last minute deals. You gave several hundred million dollars for things the Greens wanted. Is it the best way to get good policy, to have these negotiations at the last minute?
TREASURER:
Well, the negotiations have been taking place over a period of time. It's not just at the last minute and some times the priorities change. All we can do is to deal with that as best we can, and we're continuing to do that. But we wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't for the reckless behaviour of the Liberal and National parties in the Senate and in the House of Representatives.
CURTIS:
But doesn't it, in the end, look like, though, you were playing politics, leaving it to put maximum pressure on the Opposition to pass the package, and then having to get the crossbenchers, who you needed, quite late in the Senate?
TREASURER:
Not at all. The Opposition decided from day one to oppose the package in total, and Malcolm Turnbull made that very clear again in the House last night. We have been in discussions with the minor parties over a period of time, and we will continue to discuss matters in a constructive way and if we can resolve them in the national interest we'll do that.
CURTIS:
Have you learnt any lessons from this process that you'll use in future Senate negotiations?
TREASURER:
Well, Senate negotiations are always complex. I'm not aware of any time in Australian history when we've been in this situation where they've been easy. They are never easy. You're dealing with a variety of personalities, a variety of demands and a variety of competing interests. All you can do is make the best judgement at the time and take it in the national interest.
CURTIS:
You, last night, announced changes to the Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Act. Were those changes aimed at ensuring more scrutiny of the Rio Tinto/Chinalco deal?
TREASURER:
No, they're not. We will scrutinise the proposed deal from Rio Tinto and Chinalco under our national interest guidelines. We do that in the normal way. But we did announce yesterday that we would be looking at the use of complex financial instruments because that's a new development and that must be dealt with in a legislative way.
CURTIS:
Do you look favourably on the Rio/Chinalco deal?
TREASURER:
I don't speculate about the outcome. We certainly welcome foreign investment. Foreign investment is a very important part particularly of our resources sector, and we will give this the usual scrutiny and we will apply the normal approach in this case.
CURTIS:
Wayne Swan, thank you very much for your time.
TREASURER:
Thank you.
